The answer to that is important. Do we pledge our allegiance to the United States government or to the idea of America? Do we owe our loyalty to government regulators who want to take away our rights and freedoms?
Anarchy as a concept is great, but ignores the existence of the morally bankrupt, the criminal, the mentally ill and those of sub-par intellect; all of whom lack the capacity for self discipline and self restraint.
You mean like those people who fill seats of government and have the monopoly on violence and the means of unlimited funding? What exactly would be worse without government?
Exactly, because it's practically impossible to ignore the morally bankrupt, criminal, mentally ill idiots who have no self discipline or self restraint that we refer to as the government.
It's a delicate balance to be struck. Those with a thirst for power will strive to fill any vacuum of it. The founders recognized this and said to 'secure these (our) rights, governments are instituted... deriving their powers from the consent of the governed." A coalition of the good, if you will, to counter the inevitable alliances of the wicked and avaricious. A necessary evil. There is no Utopia on Earth (yet).
You missed a very important word: deriving their JUST powers from the consent of the governed." Anything beyond that is tyranny. Jefferson understood that. I see the founding fathers as mostly normal guys who wanted us to be governed by our peers. That is people that you knew had the moral capacity to do so without having their heads swell up with the power that they are wielding.
If you were to spend some time on Youtube watching the hundreds of the law enforcement class interact with us lowly mundane you have got to come to the conclusion that they are the major barrier between what is morally correct and what is morally bankrupt. THEY all have the ability to ignore bad immoral laws. No one forced Lon Horiuchi to shoot Vicky Weaver in the head. No one forced the agents that attacked the Branch Davidians to do so. No one forced the agent that shot Sammy Weaver in the back to do so. It was all done FREELY because none of those people exhibit normal empathy. They have a "I was just doing my job" mentality and when the people reach a point, they will NOT want to be in those jobs.
Term not missed, I 'just' abbreviated the passage. (why is "abbreviated" such a long word?)
Anyway... we're not really on opposite sides of this argument as an abusive or corrupt LEA and/or individual officers shows that the power hungry gravitate to power, and form groups to amass and assert that power. Power corrupts. Thus, checks and balances. BUT, as the Great Document says, governments are instituted, (must be instituted), among men to protect our rights from such cabals. ETERNAL vigilance by, we the people, to ensure corruption is weeded out of that governance is painfully, doggedly, tirelessly necessary. Your actual participation in your government - not just mailing in a 'ballot' - is required. TJ, I'm sure, would take great pains to make correction before just trashing the whole thing, despite his acknowledgement that it is our right and final option to do so. Note that our founders didn't say: "Anarchy is such a great thing; let's do that."
The word JUST seems to me to be an important factor in the whole sentence. So pardon me if I assumed you missed it. As for anarchy as a whole? Except for our typically minute interaction in most cases, with agents of the government, aren't we self governed? The US Constitution obviously has some fatal flaws or we wouldn't be in the situation we are today. Is it because of government that people obey the laws that are against aggressive activity or is it that most people self rule in that respect? If I didn't pay extortion fees for services that I have no use for, just how much interaction with government agents would I ever have? So, in think that Doug's understanding is quite correct. We really do not need government in the way it is today. How about we form our own militia groups and make sure that those who want to rob, rape and steal are kept under control by US not some parasite that dons a uniform and runs around robbing from people for innocuous acts. Without government there would be no speed limits. Heaven forbit. If some one drives like a maniac and causes harm to someone else, we have a remedy at our disposal. A CITIZEN jury to indict and a CITIZEN jury to convict and a CITIZEN hang man if the conviction warrants that extreme.
So many Christians claim the reason we need government is because man is so desperately wicked in all his ways. So the remedy is to "vote" the most desperately wicked in all of their ways into positions of leadership. If man really was that wicked, how hard would it be for a few of us to lay an ambush for the local "enforcers", wipe their asses out and then go about our merry way, raping, robbing and stealing? As much as I may disagree with this guy's religious overview, the basic presentation makes a lot of sense... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOysMK5xK5c
Yes, we are self governed. Your CITIZEN jury and CITIZEN hang man are of the self governance apparatus the founders established. No need to replicate what is already established using another (the same, really) name. It's only that the apparatus (constitutional citizen governance) has been corrupted on many and high levels, and needs a good cleaning which requires effective, strong and constant participation by... CITIZENS. (Don't shirk jury duty. Attend city hall meetings, SCHOOL BOARD meetings, state gov't committee meetings. Heck, RUN for those offices.)
The Constitution's 'fatal flaws' stem merely from it being ignored.
The opponents of liberty, and I don't mean you, or Doug (far from it) would dearly love for us to trash that guiding document. Instead rally to it and demand adherence.
Interesting take on the state of affairs in the US. At the start..I was in disagreement, but each paragraph contained a persuasive argument that had me shaking my head "yes". But I believe we will see this taken down soon. I'm don't know exactly how we're going to overthrow the tyranny, but God doesn't approve and will make sure it's removed!
I disagree. There will always be those, even in a system of anarchy who will act as the sheep dogs. PLUS under a voluntary system we can have trained militias. Ever watch Larken Rose? I'd highly recommend some of his takes on Anarchy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIsAklvdhMI
'Some might ask: “Aren’t you loyal to America?'”
The answer to that is important. Do we pledge our allegiance to the United States government or to the idea of America? Do we owe our loyalty to government regulators who want to take away our rights and freedoms?
We all know the right answer.
I certainly don't owe my loyalty to traitors and psychopaths wearing robes and uniforms. I only owe them my disdain and maybe some high velocity lead.
Good thinking. When I design my utopian society, "Rule #1 No robes or uniforms".
Anarchy as a concept is great, but ignores the existence of the morally bankrupt, the criminal, the mentally ill and those of sub-par intellect; all of whom lack the capacity for self discipline and self restraint.
You mean like those people who fill seats of government and have the monopoly on violence and the means of unlimited funding? What exactly would be worse without government?
Exactly, because it's practically impossible to ignore the morally bankrupt, criminal, mentally ill idiots who have no self discipline or self restraint that we refer to as the government.
It's a delicate balance to be struck. Those with a thirst for power will strive to fill any vacuum of it. The founders recognized this and said to 'secure these (our) rights, governments are instituted... deriving their powers from the consent of the governed." A coalition of the good, if you will, to counter the inevitable alliances of the wicked and avaricious. A necessary evil. There is no Utopia on Earth (yet).
You missed a very important word: deriving their JUST powers from the consent of the governed." Anything beyond that is tyranny. Jefferson understood that. I see the founding fathers as mostly normal guys who wanted us to be governed by our peers. That is people that you knew had the moral capacity to do so without having their heads swell up with the power that they are wielding.
If you were to spend some time on Youtube watching the hundreds of the law enforcement class interact with us lowly mundane you have got to come to the conclusion that they are the major barrier between what is morally correct and what is morally bankrupt. THEY all have the ability to ignore bad immoral laws. No one forced Lon Horiuchi to shoot Vicky Weaver in the head. No one forced the agents that attacked the Branch Davidians to do so. No one forced the agent that shot Sammy Weaver in the back to do so. It was all done FREELY because none of those people exhibit normal empathy. They have a "I was just doing my job" mentality and when the people reach a point, they will NOT want to be in those jobs.
Term not missed, I 'just' abbreviated the passage. (why is "abbreviated" such a long word?)
Anyway... we're not really on opposite sides of this argument as an abusive or corrupt LEA and/or individual officers shows that the power hungry gravitate to power, and form groups to amass and assert that power. Power corrupts. Thus, checks and balances. BUT, as the Great Document says, governments are instituted, (must be instituted), among men to protect our rights from such cabals. ETERNAL vigilance by, we the people, to ensure corruption is weeded out of that governance is painfully, doggedly, tirelessly necessary. Your actual participation in your government - not just mailing in a 'ballot' - is required. TJ, I'm sure, would take great pains to make correction before just trashing the whole thing, despite his acknowledgement that it is our right and final option to do so. Note that our founders didn't say: "Anarchy is such a great thing; let's do that."
The word JUST seems to me to be an important factor in the whole sentence. So pardon me if I assumed you missed it. As for anarchy as a whole? Except for our typically minute interaction in most cases, with agents of the government, aren't we self governed? The US Constitution obviously has some fatal flaws or we wouldn't be in the situation we are today. Is it because of government that people obey the laws that are against aggressive activity or is it that most people self rule in that respect? If I didn't pay extortion fees for services that I have no use for, just how much interaction with government agents would I ever have? So, in think that Doug's understanding is quite correct. We really do not need government in the way it is today. How about we form our own militia groups and make sure that those who want to rob, rape and steal are kept under control by US not some parasite that dons a uniform and runs around robbing from people for innocuous acts. Without government there would be no speed limits. Heaven forbit. If some one drives like a maniac and causes harm to someone else, we have a remedy at our disposal. A CITIZEN jury to indict and a CITIZEN jury to convict and a CITIZEN hang man if the conviction warrants that extreme.
So many Christians claim the reason we need government is because man is so desperately wicked in all his ways. So the remedy is to "vote" the most desperately wicked in all of their ways into positions of leadership. If man really was that wicked, how hard would it be for a few of us to lay an ambush for the local "enforcers", wipe their asses out and then go about our merry way, raping, robbing and stealing? As much as I may disagree with this guy's religious overview, the basic presentation makes a lot of sense... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOysMK5xK5c
Yes, we are self governed. Your CITIZEN jury and CITIZEN hang man are of the self governance apparatus the founders established. No need to replicate what is already established using another (the same, really) name. It's only that the apparatus (constitutional citizen governance) has been corrupted on many and high levels, and needs a good cleaning which requires effective, strong and constant participation by... CITIZENS. (Don't shirk jury duty. Attend city hall meetings, SCHOOL BOARD meetings, state gov't committee meetings. Heck, RUN for those offices.)
The Constitution's 'fatal flaws' stem merely from it being ignored.
The opponents of liberty, and I don't mean you, or Doug (far from it) would dearly love for us to trash that guiding document. Instead rally to it and demand adherence.
Interesting take on the state of affairs in the US. At the start..I was in disagreement, but each paragraph contained a persuasive argument that had me shaking my head "yes". But I believe we will see this taken down soon. I'm don't know exactly how we're going to overthrow the tyranny, but God doesn't approve and will make sure it's removed!
I disagree. There will always be those, even in a system of anarchy who will act as the sheep dogs. PLUS under a voluntary system we can have trained militias. Ever watch Larken Rose? I'd highly recommend some of his takes on Anarchy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIsAklvdhMI