24 Comments
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Neural Foundry's avatar

Stunning breakdown of how ATF agents literally admitted they couldnt make the card work by cutting along the lines but still got a conviction. The fact that the examiner had to cut outside the lines to even attempt functionality, and still only caused a dangerous malfunction rather than sustained fire, makes this whole prosecutoin absurd. What really gets me is the judge instructing the jury to treat the card as a machine gun simply because ATF said so, complteley short-circuiting any actual evidentiary standard.

Kathy Christian's avatar

It sets the precedent that evidence is not necessary for a conviction.

Neural Foundry's avatar

This Hoover case is absolutely chilling in its implications for speech and commerce. You're spot on that the ATF essentially criminalized intent without any functoinal crime, which flips due process entirely. What strikes me most is how the judge's jury instructions created a legal fiction where teh card "became" a machine gun simply because an agent said so. That's not jurisprudence, thats administrative fiat masquerading as law, and it sets a precedent where regulatory agencies can manufacture guilt through definitional gymnastics rather than actual evidence of harm.

Courageous Lion's avatar

EXACTLY! it was a total railroad job by a bunch of kangaroos. The prosecutor should be sitting in a cage right now, but instead she drives to "work" in her fancy new Lexus and lives in a house most of us can only dream of while racking up a pension to come and meanwhile people who work REAL jobs like Matt, she's making a special effort to cage him for WHAT? I hope if she drives a Tesla it blows up under her ass but harms no one else.

Kathy Christian's avatar

Keep voting for those elected representatives!

Courageous Lion's avatar

The only thing I do when I vote is vote AGAINST anything they are trying to pass that would increase the financial burden placed on me though tax increases. Whoever the persons are, I ignore them. I don't WANT a representative. I want to represent myself and my attitude towards them is LEAVE ME THE F**K ALONE!

Dale's avatar

Monopoly on violence is the hallmark of tyranny.

Liz LaSorte's avatar

And, so said Alexander “bills of rights are not only unnecessary…but dangerous” Hamilton:

https://lizlasorte.substack.com/p/get-in-the-ring-alexander-hamilton?r=76q58

Courageous Lion's avatar

I don’t know about dangerous. I think if they were FOLLOWED it wouldn’t be an issue. But they are IGNORED continually. The COMMUNIST MANIFESTO is being followed instead.

Clyde's avatar

What is it about collectivist, communist, fascist ideologies that garners the attention of all the Cluster B personalities? The institutions only protect institutional interest where one stranger with a "complaint" can bring the whole Leviathan down on anybody they consider to be a "Concern". Control freaks to the left of me, Control freaks to the right and here I am, thinking how many cancel culture virtue signalling hypocrites will I be able to take out since they insist that I join their party?

Courageous Lion's avatar

We are the BORG. Assimilate or DIE. That should be a universal government motto.

Liz LaSorte's avatar

The point being Alexander Hamilton was not a good founding father and argued against our cherished bill of rights.

Courageous Lion's avatar

Hamilton definitely had some mental issues from what I’ve read that he proposed.

Liz LaSorte's avatar

Yeah, I’d say avarice is a mental issue- sure does cause a lot of harm…

Alan Devincentis's avatar

I hope they never come here for my machine guns. Or silencers. Why my silencers make a gun sound like a kitten farting. Can’t have those. And my machine guns? 6000 rounds a minute. Cmon atf. Where are you. And all those unregistered firearms I have. I’m an evil one,I tell ya.

Courageous Lion's avatar

Don’t poke the bear Alan. You might have to call for backup.

Ray Horvath, "The Source" :)'s avatar

They are also going after tiny 3D-printed (made in China) devices that turn Glocks into full-auto. Those actually work.

As bad as the legalese in the above case is, I wouldn't like newbies running around with full-auto weapons...

Courageous Lion's avatar

Well, I agree to degree. How about we make a public execution EXAMPLE out of ANYONE using ANY GUN to murder someone else. That should possibly be a good deterrent. I don’t personally care who owns what as long as they don’t use it to harm me or my family. I think the bitch of a prosecutor should tried, convicted of jury tampering and hung.

Kathy Christian's avatar

If we had a functioning legal system, murderers would be executed. All of them. Not put up on death row with color TV and three nutritious meals a day for 20+ years. Or, given a house and a college education.

Ray Horvath, "The Source" :)'s avatar

Obviously, the article is about constitutional rights, but as you and I agreed before, these are fundamental human rights; they cannot be granted by a "Constitution."

It was only a side note from me to mention newbies with a full-auto. Just like me, you have shot full-auto, and you also know that about 70 percent cannot handle it. If I add the "a shot can't be recalled" principle, it's mighty problematic to use automatics in a heavily-populated area. But we agree on that, so I didn't mention it as a message to you, only to those craving to use one, while most likely unable to handle it.

Courageous Lion's avatar

I thought I made that clear Ray. All rights don’t come from a Constitution. Maybe I forgot to mention that. I know I do in all my other posts on the related topic.

Ray Horvath, "The Source" :)'s avatar

You and I agreed on that before.

Kathy Christian's avatar

She needs a good fuck, is what she needs.

Courageous Lion's avatar

ROTFLMAO!!! With a broom handle.