Mark 12:17 (and elsewhere in the new testament) "Jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's." As far as state expropriation/theft it's pretty straight forward to me - simple words to live by unless you're a modern Roman/Officer of the State - wanting to weasle-out of taxation. Direct taxation (income expropriation) is theft unless you're an officer/state worker/Roman Contractor - Indirect Taxation is a user fee (excise tax.) If I rent government land to grow cows to sell - or live in government provided housing then I'd say give to Caesar what is Caesar's. I appreciate Fairfax Resolve #6 being included in your post - "do not comply" in a nutshell. I think the best way to unify - is locally around the noncompliant and then follow-through "withdrawl money" ("from encroachment of despotism/tyrants or yeild to one and fall pray to the other") most effectually like Mason and Washington - once and for all - then see who screams the loudest. Then the community knows where and who to deal with first. The best form of unity is noncompliance - the best form of combat is noncompliance... it can be done all around the world. I like to refer to 2 Corinthians 10:3-6 "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete." Thanks for letting me ramble - great read!
"Jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's." That one was a good one. He knew the word said the gold and silver were the Lords. So basically what he was saying is give to God the gold and silver and give the PICTURE OF CAESAR to Caesar. He was a word master.
Caesar minted the coinage - and circulated it - paid Roman sodiers with it .. yes Caesar's face was on his currency... until alloys other than gold were used to hide the "equal weights and measures" as was even back then required by law - and the people would requently clip them sometimes into peices of eight and recast them (I think they mostly clipped the silver coins), Jesus knew well of the bankers/moneychanger's games going on even back then. Speaking of economics - Biden's economic advisor is making the rounds - what a stooge. https://www.bitchute.com/video/DnQ6M4fDVDfE/
The book of Romans, was written by the Romans, adopted and realized by the Romans (men) who practiced sodomy in their army for compliance, thus becoming legion.
Not all books are inspired by God, Romans being the least credulous.
Do you think Jesus the Christ told his followers to obey tyrannical government? Extremely unlikely😂
Pay Ceaser what you owe him,what favours / conditions from Ceasar did you accept, that needs repaying?
Which means if you follow the God Molech of (money) or men/women of power, you are bound to the agreed transaction you have made (thy shall not steal).......
In fact it's best to have nothing to do with those thinking they're God's....or your fate is bound with them.
Great post, that book has been used to enslave the Christians for centuries.
And so how does the average "Christian" come to your conclusions? Where did you come up with the charge against Romans? And how would you know that the Roman legions practiced sodomy? And what exactly is that? There seems to be some controversy as to what entails sodomy. Anyhow, you seem to have some beliefs backed by some study. But belief and knowledge are two different things.
Forty-three years ago, after asking Jesus Christ to be my Lord and Savior, I started studying the Holy Bible - (KJV-NKJV-NIV-NAS). I'm now on my fourth Bible as the first three wore out their bindings/pages because of overuse. I am also formally educated by the University of California (BA 1975) in the social sciences and to think using linear logic and the scientific method.
That said, I am convinced Paul did not write Romans 13. I posit Romans 13 was added during the Dark Ages by corrupt and evil men seeking power and wealth. I posit this happened at the same time Constantine changed the Hebrew Sabbath from the Seventh Day to the First Day of the Week.
"Not that I need to get into a big thing about these issues" you say. Who are you fooling? Who uses psuedonyms instead of their real names here? Cowardly Lions? Hrmph.
There is no such thing as an "average" Christian, to be a believer following the Ten Commandments is exceptional.
The Ten commandments , are the only laws in the book , from God himself and need no interpretation and make sense no matter what time period for a peaceful society.
All great books have been altered or interpreted throughout their existence, by others wishing to hyjack/ alter/use it's greatness, to believe otherwise, is simply naive.
Have you seen the Vatican's interpretations today .. .....
Literalism is a Hallmark of persecution and manipulation.
Did Jesus the Christ walk around with the old testament?
Did he question the writings of John, Paul and Moses at certain points, yes.
Did he honour the Pharisees, scribes and authorities, no.
When a passage is the opposite to the teachings of Jesus, it should be taken with a grain of salt.....imo.
Some of the apostles were originally tax collectors and murderers of Christians.......when was their part written?
Great discussion, everyone has their own interpretation, that's mine.
Would you ostracized me for it?
I think we can all agree the doctrine has been used (by others) as a tool and excuse for genecide and ethnic cleansing on more than one occasion throughout history.
The "right" fanatics are good at this.
The "left" fanatics are good at this.
When in doubt, what did Jesus actually say......
Jesus DID NOT mention homosexuality , but did mention sodomy and bestiality.
When a man is "dominated" sexually by another man, he is never the same, this is proven biology and Psychology.
His voice box changes as does his attitude towards others.
A women is also changed by this sexual practice.......
Everything else is pure speculation and hatred, by opinionated pious men and women.
The book of Romans was written by the apostle Paul to the Christians in Rome. A proper interpretation DOES NOT enslave Christians to government, even if an improper interpretation by gov't and others has been used to do just that.
"Have nothing to do with those thinking they are Gods" - A-men. Jesus was God... and I would be perfectly fine "bound" for eternity in His Father's house. John 14:2-6
I suspect I am in a tiny minority, here, when I say that Saul was the first of many 'anti-Christs'. I don't believe the Damascus Road experience ever occurred and his disagreements with the apostle Peter and John (Jesus' brother!) are well documented. Paul, a Roman citizen, always made it clear that he was a Roman above anything else.
That's an interesting proposition. If so, I wonder if it was an intentional decision, or more of someone who had feet in two opposing worlds, and was trying to reconcile them. Like most of us, I am surmising Paul (or the writer of the New Testament Epistles) was of his cultural and familial origins, with all of the limitations that come with being human.
Saul could have changed Jewish life forever (by ending the cruel tradition of sacrificing sheep and pigeons) if only those pesky Romans hadn't interfered. There wasn't time to create a new Jewish cult, so a brand new one had to be invented.
His intentions may have been excellent. Just like Josephus (but that's another story).
GOD’s law is the only law that matters. Anything or anyone going against this whether government or otherwise shall not stand and if left to their own devices will turn to EVIL every time.
The only issue I see with your way of understanding is figuring out exactly WHAT God's law is according to the Bible. I think that if man's law was based on the simplicity of DO NO HARM, that should cover anything that you would consider God's law.
In Exodus 35:2, as Israel was about to embark on the work of building the tabernacle, Moses gathered all the people together and said, "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death.".
So, instead of having a MAN decide if you had worked on the Sabbath or not, which means being able to determine exactly which day IS the Sabbath and how do we do that? I mean isn't the act of working on the Sabbath the death penalty? Seems a little harsh doesn't it? Who is damaged by working on the Sabbath? God? If so, can you call God into a court of law to claim the damage? And doesn't Jesus himself in Luke 6:1-11 contradict the Sabbath? If you look at Exodus and look at Luke we have a conundrum because working on the Sabbath is obviously part of God's law as it IS the 4th commandment.
So here is the dilema.
1. It is God's law and you said it is the only law that matters.
2. WHO decides what day the Sabbath is? I can think of three different views on that.
a. It is Sunday
b. It is Saturday
c. It rotates from one day to the next according to the moon cycles every year. So one year it would be Sunday, then Monday, then Tuesday etc
WHO decides what work is?
WHO decides how the death penalty is to be carried out?
That is just ONE of the 10 commandments that are "Gods Law". I can go on about the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, but I won't and then I could go on about the other 6 but I won't. And then are those the only "laws of God" or does eating pork fall under them.. or did the page in between the old and new testament that shows you the dividing point nullify the law against eating pork?
Well done. It is contradictions, and impossible-to-resolve interpretive struggles like these that led me to question the legitimacy of the Bible over the course of my life. I do feel though, when I place my faith in Christ and prayer, that quality of my life improves immensely. I continue to read and struggle with the Word.
In many languages, the word "Saturday" is synonymous with the word "Sabbath". God said that the Hebrews must keep Sabbath. The Pope changed it to Sunday - like all the other pagan religions.
Ok bud... time for some education. When Jesus died on the cross, it was too establish a new Covenant with us. So we now follow the new Testament and the only rules in the new Testament are "love the lord thy God with mind, heart and soul", and "love thy neighbor as thyself. ". No more sabbath stuff because in this age nobody can do that. With those 2 commandments things are pretty easy to follow. Also, the new Testament was written in Greek, Greek words have more than one meaning so it takes the Holy Spirit to reveal timing, and the true discernment of the scriptures. Proverbs 25:2 " it is the glory of God to conceal a matter and the glory of kings to seek out a matter". Tells you right there...he hides it for only those worthy to seek it out. Also Jeremiah 29:13 " you will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart ". I'm just learning all this stuff, and it's fascinating. We've been mislead by Satan.
For one thing, a page in between the “old” and “new” testaments is the only way a person of intelligence can tell there is a divide. Otherwise you have a lot of contradictions, where there really are no matter how you look at the Bible. I like the “love the lord thy God with mind, heart and soul", and "love thy neighbor as thyself.” To bad it isn’t followed. It would be the end of all strife.
Why even have the old testament? Maybe I can help with your beliefs by sending you a PDF with some information that I’d love to see you debate. BUT you have to look at the questions with a mind willing to question. https://bornagainclassics.com/Books/Deist-Reality-Cards.pdf
Bring it on. Dude..I share because I care. Why do I care? Because I want to see you in heaven, I like you, you're smart and fun. I'm not afraid to debate as long as we're working with the truth!
God's law is undefined, at least in some points as our understanding of them is corrupted by man and Satan (the father of lies). So much confusion, but God did not intend for this, I defer to your greater knowledge.
Let's simplify God's law into what Jesus said. Love thy neighbor as yourself. And do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Or more simply put...DO NO HARM. What kind of world would it be if everyone, and I mean EVERYONE could understand and follow those three words. DO NO HARM. That should be a bumper sticker that you see on every automobile in the world.
I agree in theory; but there are always Unintended Consequences to every action and to every non-action. Consider Israel on 5/6/2024. It must destroy Hamas; but uneathing the gang's headquarters will inevitably cost the lives of doctors and nurses.
How can Netenyahu DO NO HARM by ignoring those hundred of crime victims? How can Netenyahu DO NO HARM by doing what is needed?
Are you kidding? I've been in so many "churches" that I have to say CHRISTIANS don't understand the Bible. They use it like a smorgasbord at an all you can eat Chinese Buffet. I can guarantee that I can ask you a LOT of questions about the bible that you won't be able to answer, so tell me that you understand the bible.
Believing in the Bible means you believe Christians can drink any poison and not get sick and die and that they can lay hands on sick people and the sick will recover according to Mark 16:18. Am I missing something? My understanding is that no one can drink "any poison" and not get sick and die. And that many of the so called faith healings that have "taken place" on television are staged.
... I'd say piss and vinegar are good for the guts - you're right - society has us caged in discussions within formal/rigid parameters/gates - totalitarians abhor open discussions beyond those limits and consider most words spoken in dissent of those formal "NEWSPEAK" codes a threat to the establishment.
While researching the Rapture concept I found alot of information about how the Rothschild family deliberately set out to alter the Bible. Then the real King James ordered the Bible be rewritten to clean up the language, but changed the book of Jacob to the book of James. Now we have the lost book of Enoch which describes Jesus judging evil, showing up and we find it was removed by the Roman Catholics. My point is.... even the Bible is corrupted.
Also the new Testament was written in the Greek language and in the Greek language words have more than one meaning. So one word can completely alter the context of a sentence. That's why God sends prophets and real prophets hear from the Holy Spirit, as the Holy Spirit reveals the "when" of things. Reading the Bible alone won't give us the whole picture.
Exactly - unbelievers don't "understand" the scriptures because scripters don't reasonate with them. As for the Bible - it has been translated a thousand ways to Sunday - many scriptures have been lost or omitted altogether. .. although the framework is still there - and where there is the spirit of the living God - the room is already prepared. God Bless You!
Thank you for highlighting several examples of Biblical characters not blindly obeying "the government."
A very good source that discusses this topic is Pastor Dan Fisher's book, "Unlimited Submission? -- How Romans 13:1-5 has been incorrectly used to silence Christians and the Church"
Unlimited submission to those in authority is to make them God. We are to submit to authority when it is upholding Natural Law and the Ten Commandments. We are to resist authority when it persecutes the needy, widows, orphans, and the poor. oppression of the poor is a sin that cries to Heaven for vengeance, and institutions like the IRS are guilty of this in spades, as are all those who prevent people from having a sustainable household or business.
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Romans 13:1
"Every soul" means "every soul", including those who sit in the seat of governing authority. Unjust or usurped powers and actions by these individuals have no authority and individuals who use their positions for that purpose are storing up wrath for themselves.
"Higher powers" are powers that are authoritative over "every soul" whether that particular soul sits in the seat of government or not. These powers are "of God" and are "ordained of God".
Men will be held accountable for their actions down to every idle word that they have spoken. Take heed.
I believe that the book of Romans was written by the apostle Paul, a roman citizen who was executed by Rome for being an outspoken Christian.
I believe that Romans 13 clearly explains what authority is just and right, and ordained of God for the security of our natural, unalienable rights. As Thomas Jefferson said, governments are instituted among men to secure these God-given rights.
I believe that Romans 13 primarily focuses on the requirement of all individuals, all souls, to subject themselves just and authoritative higher powers, ordained of God. That does not include tyrants in government who violate our natural, God-given rights. They will one day be held to account before a just and omnipotent God.
Actually the "jews" don't own me and I reposted an article that the late Pastor Dixon had posted years ago. It doesn't mean that I agree 100% or even 50% of what he posted. And since we didn't live in Germany at the time of Hitler, we really don't know. I mean I did read his gun control act which is tyrannical.
Not actually. Of course that one is debatable since he was from the tribe of Judah, which was unfortunately translated into the word Jew. Not sure why, but the people today who typically claim to be jews are not of Judah, but rather from the Kazarian tribes of Russia. Revelation 3vs9 describes them.
Mark 12:17 (and elsewhere in the new testament) "Jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's." As far as state expropriation/theft it's pretty straight forward to me - simple words to live by unless you're a modern Roman/Officer of the State - wanting to weasle-out of taxation. Direct taxation (income expropriation) is theft unless you're an officer/state worker/Roman Contractor - Indirect Taxation is a user fee (excise tax.) If I rent government land to grow cows to sell - or live in government provided housing then I'd say give to Caesar what is Caesar's. I appreciate Fairfax Resolve #6 being included in your post - "do not comply" in a nutshell. I think the best way to unify - is locally around the noncompliant and then follow-through "withdrawl money" ("from encroachment of despotism/tyrants or yeild to one and fall pray to the other") most effectually like Mason and Washington - once and for all - then see who screams the loudest. Then the community knows where and who to deal with first. The best form of unity is noncompliance - the best form of combat is noncompliance... it can be done all around the world. I like to refer to 2 Corinthians 10:3-6 "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete." Thanks for letting me ramble - great read!
"Jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's." That one was a good one. He knew the word said the gold and silver were the Lords. So basically what he was saying is give to God the gold and silver and give the PICTURE OF CAESAR to Caesar. He was a word master.
Caesar minted the coinage - and circulated it - paid Roman sodiers with it .. yes Caesar's face was on his currency... until alloys other than gold were used to hide the "equal weights and measures" as was even back then required by law - and the people would requently clip them sometimes into peices of eight and recast them (I think they mostly clipped the silver coins), Jesus knew well of the bankers/moneychanger's games going on even back then. Speaking of economics - Biden's economic advisor is making the rounds - what a stooge. https://www.bitchute.com/video/DnQ6M4fDVDfE/
The book of Romans, was written by the Romans, adopted and realized by the Romans (men) who practiced sodomy in their army for compliance, thus becoming legion.
Not all books are inspired by God, Romans being the least credulous.
Do you think Jesus the Christ told his followers to obey tyrannical government? Extremely unlikely😂
Pay Ceaser what you owe him,what favours / conditions from Ceasar did you accept, that needs repaying?
Which means if you follow the God Molech of (money) or men/women of power, you are bound to the agreed transaction you have made (thy shall not steal).......
In fact it's best to have nothing to do with those thinking they're God's....or your fate is bound with them.
Great post, that book has been used to enslave the Christians for centuries.
God needs no pity, or Government.
As the true and faithful do not.
Cheers
And so how does the average "Christian" come to your conclusions? Where did you come up with the charge against Romans? And how would you know that the Roman legions practiced sodomy? And what exactly is that? There seems to be some controversy as to what entails sodomy. Anyhow, you seem to have some beliefs backed by some study. But belief and knowledge are two different things.
Forty-three years ago, after asking Jesus Christ to be my Lord and Savior, I started studying the Holy Bible - (KJV-NKJV-NIV-NAS). I'm now on my fourth Bible as the first three wore out their bindings/pages because of overuse. I am also formally educated by the University of California (BA 1975) in the social sciences and to think using linear logic and the scientific method.
That said, I am convinced Paul did not write Romans 13. I posit Romans 13 was added during the Dark Ages by corrupt and evil men seeking power and wealth. I posit this happened at the same time Constantine changed the Hebrew Sabbath from the Seventh Day to the First Day of the Week.
"Not that I need to get into a big thing about these issues" you say. Who are you fooling? Who uses psuedonyms instead of their real names here? Cowardly Lions? Hrmph.
The Word Herder: After perusing your comment - obviously I cannot help you.
There is no such thing as an "average" Christian, to be a believer following the Ten Commandments is exceptional.
The Ten commandments , are the only laws in the book , from God himself and need no interpretation and make sense no matter what time period for a peaceful society.
All great books have been altered or interpreted throughout their existence, by others wishing to hyjack/ alter/use it's greatness, to believe otherwise, is simply naive.
Have you seen the Vatican's interpretations today .. .....
Literalism is a Hallmark of persecution and manipulation.
Did Jesus the Christ walk around with the old testament?
Did he question the writings of John, Paul and Moses at certain points, yes.
Did he honour the Pharisees, scribes and authorities, no.
When a passage is the opposite to the teachings of Jesus, it should be taken with a grain of salt.....imo.
Some of the apostles were originally tax collectors and murderers of Christians.......when was their part written?
Great discussion, everyone has their own interpretation, that's mine.
Would you ostracized me for it?
I think we can all agree the doctrine has been used (by others) as a tool and excuse for genecide and ethnic cleansing on more than one occasion throughout history.
The "right" fanatics are good at this.
The "left" fanatics are good at this.
When in doubt, what did Jesus actually say......
Jesus DID NOT mention homosexuality , but did mention sodomy and bestiality.
When a man is "dominated" sexually by another man, he is never the same, this is proven biology and Psychology.
His voice box changes as does his attitude towards others.
A women is also changed by this sexual practice.......
Everything else is pure speculation and hatred, by opinionated pious men and women.
Let's not make the same mistakes again.
Peace be with you.
Jesus the Christ was the son of God made flesh, anything is possible.
He also defeated death by his resurrection, and lives through us all, to this day......
If you believe these two points, then it makes sense, and your a Christian 😁
Time has no sway on the eternal God Creator Almighty Father.
He was, is and shall be, forever.
Amen.
Thanks for your input, always appreciate a reasonable debate👍
Cheers
The book of Romans was written by the apostle Paul to the Christians in Rome. A proper interpretation DOES NOT enslave Christians to government, even if an improper interpretation by gov't and others has been used to do just that.
"Have nothing to do with those thinking they are Gods" - A-men. Jesus was God... and I would be perfectly fine "bound" for eternity in His Father's house. John 14:2-6
I have to agree with you!
I suspect I am in a tiny minority, here, when I say that Saul was the first of many 'anti-Christs'. I don't believe the Damascus Road experience ever occurred and his disagreements with the apostle Peter and John (Jesus' brother!) are well documented. Paul, a Roman citizen, always made it clear that he was a Roman above anything else.
That's an interesting proposition. If so, I wonder if it was an intentional decision, or more of someone who had feet in two opposing worlds, and was trying to reconcile them. Like most of us, I am surmising Paul (or the writer of the New Testament Epistles) was of his cultural and familial origins, with all of the limitations that come with being human.
Saul could have changed Jewish life forever (by ending the cruel tradition of sacrificing sheep and pigeons) if only those pesky Romans hadn't interfered. There wasn't time to create a new Jewish cult, so a brand new one had to be invented.
His intentions may have been excellent. Just like Josephus (but that's another story).
Agree
GOD’s law is the only law that matters. Anything or anyone going against this whether government or otherwise shall not stand and if left to their own devices will turn to EVIL every time.
The only issue I see with your way of understanding is figuring out exactly WHAT God's law is according to the Bible. I think that if man's law was based on the simplicity of DO NO HARM, that should cover anything that you would consider God's law.
In Exodus 35:2, as Israel was about to embark on the work of building the tabernacle, Moses gathered all the people together and said, "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death.".
So, instead of having a MAN decide if you had worked on the Sabbath or not, which means being able to determine exactly which day IS the Sabbath and how do we do that? I mean isn't the act of working on the Sabbath the death penalty? Seems a little harsh doesn't it? Who is damaged by working on the Sabbath? God? If so, can you call God into a court of law to claim the damage? And doesn't Jesus himself in Luke 6:1-11 contradict the Sabbath? If you look at Exodus and look at Luke we have a conundrum because working on the Sabbath is obviously part of God's law as it IS the 4th commandment.
So here is the dilema.
1. It is God's law and you said it is the only law that matters.
2. WHO decides what day the Sabbath is? I can think of three different views on that.
a. It is Sunday
b. It is Saturday
c. It rotates from one day to the next according to the moon cycles every year. So one year it would be Sunday, then Monday, then Tuesday etc
WHO decides what work is?
WHO decides how the death penalty is to be carried out?
That is just ONE of the 10 commandments that are "Gods Law". I can go on about the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, but I won't and then I could go on about the other 6 but I won't. And then are those the only "laws of God" or does eating pork fall under them.. or did the page in between the old and new testament that shows you the dividing point nullify the law against eating pork?
Well done. It is contradictions, and impossible-to-resolve interpretive struggles like these that led me to question the legitimacy of the Bible over the course of my life. I do feel though, when I place my faith in Christ and prayer, that quality of my life improves immensely. I continue to read and struggle with the Word.
In many languages, the word "Saturday" is synonymous with the word "Sabbath". God said that the Hebrews must keep Sabbath. The Pope changed it to Sunday - like all the other pagan religions.
Apparently, in Latin, Saturday is "Saturn's Day." In fact, all of our days appear to be named after the first seven planets...https://www.archimedesnest.com/weekdays-and-planets/saturday
Ok bud... time for some education. When Jesus died on the cross, it was too establish a new Covenant with us. So we now follow the new Testament and the only rules in the new Testament are "love the lord thy God with mind, heart and soul", and "love thy neighbor as thyself. ". No more sabbath stuff because in this age nobody can do that. With those 2 commandments things are pretty easy to follow. Also, the new Testament was written in Greek, Greek words have more than one meaning so it takes the Holy Spirit to reveal timing, and the true discernment of the scriptures. Proverbs 25:2 " it is the glory of God to conceal a matter and the glory of kings to seek out a matter". Tells you right there...he hides it for only those worthy to seek it out. Also Jeremiah 29:13 " you will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart ". I'm just learning all this stuff, and it's fascinating. We've been mislead by Satan.
For one thing, a page in between the “old” and “new” testaments is the only way a person of intelligence can tell there is a divide. Otherwise you have a lot of contradictions, where there really are no matter how you look at the Bible. I like the “love the lord thy God with mind, heart and soul", and "love thy neighbor as thyself.” To bad it isn’t followed. It would be the end of all strife.
Why even have the old testament? Maybe I can help with your beliefs by sending you a PDF with some information that I’d love to see you debate. BUT you have to look at the questions with a mind willing to question. https://bornagainclassics.com/Books/Deist-Reality-Cards.pdf
Where do you want my answers?
Bring it on. Dude..I share because I care. Why do I care? Because I want to see you in heaven, I like you, you're smart and fun. I'm not afraid to debate as long as we're working with the truth!
And also, Lion, the law about pork is a Jewish law, not a Christian law. Just sayin'.
I stand with THIS.
I realize you are standing with the response of EON, and not me, so I make this statement so anyone else will realize it also.
God's law is undefined, at least in some points as our understanding of them is corrupted by man and Satan (the father of lies). So much confusion, but God did not intend for this, I defer to your greater knowledge.
Let's simplify God's law into what Jesus said. Love thy neighbor as yourself. And do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Or more simply put...DO NO HARM. What kind of world would it be if everyone, and I mean EVERYONE could understand and follow those three words. DO NO HARM. That should be a bumper sticker that you see on every automobile in the world.
I'll take two!
I agree in theory; but there are always Unintended Consequences to every action and to every non-action. Consider Israel on 5/6/2024. It must destroy Hamas; but uneathing the gang's headquarters will inevitably cost the lives of doctors and nurses.
How can Netenyahu DO NO HARM by ignoring those hundred of crime victims? How can Netenyahu DO NO HARM by doing what is needed?
I hope this helps pooch.
harm /härm/
noun
Physical or psychological damage or injury.
Immoral or unjust effects.
Injury; hurt; damage; detriment; misfortune.
.... the unbeliever is unable to understand the Bible.
Are you kidding? I've been in so many "churches" that I have to say CHRISTIANS don't understand the Bible. They use it like a smorgasbord at an all you can eat Chinese Buffet. I can guarantee that I can ask you a LOT of questions about the bible that you won't be able to answer, so tell me that you understand the bible.
The Lady doth protest too much - me thinks.
So Doug...explain the understanding of this:
Believing in the Bible means you believe Christians can drink any poison and not get sick and die and that they can lay hands on sick people and the sick will recover according to Mark 16:18. Am I missing something? My understanding is that no one can drink "any poison" and not get sick and die. And that many of the so called faith healings that have "taken place" on television are staged.
I wonder what they would do if they had this for a test Jaan...check it out.
http://bornagainclassics.com/Books/Deist-Reality-Cards.pdf
... I'd say piss and vinegar are good for the guts - you're right - society has us caged in discussions within formal/rigid parameters/gates - totalitarians abhor open discussions beyond those limits and consider most words spoken in dissent of those formal "NEWSPEAK" codes a threat to the establishment.
While researching the Rapture concept I found alot of information about how the Rothschild family deliberately set out to alter the Bible. Then the real King James ordered the Bible be rewritten to clean up the language, but changed the book of Jacob to the book of James. Now we have the lost book of Enoch which describes Jesus judging evil, showing up and we find it was removed by the Roman Catholics. My point is.... even the Bible is corrupted.
As are most churches - takes nothing from the heart of the believer though.
Also the new Testament was written in the Greek language and in the Greek language words have more than one meaning. So one word can completely alter the context of a sentence. That's why God sends prophets and real prophets hear from the Holy Spirit, as the Holy Spirit reveals the "when" of things. Reading the Bible alone won't give us the whole picture.
Exactly - unbelievers don't "understand" the scriptures because scripters don't reasonate with them. As for the Bible - it has been translated a thousand ways to Sunday - many scriptures have been lost or omitted altogether. .. although the framework is still there - and where there is the spirit of the living God - the room is already prepared. God Bless You!
Thank you for highlighting several examples of Biblical characters not blindly obeying "the government."
A very good source that discusses this topic is Pastor Dan Fisher's book, "Unlimited Submission? -- How Romans 13:1-5 has been incorrectly used to silence Christians and the Church"
Unlimited submission to those in authority is to make them God. We are to submit to authority when it is upholding Natural Law and the Ten Commandments. We are to resist authority when it persecutes the needy, widows, orphans, and the poor. oppression of the poor is a sin that cries to Heaven for vengeance, and institutions like the IRS are guilty of this in spades, as are all those who prevent people from having a sustainable household or business.
Socialism is intrinsically evil.
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." - Romans 13:1
"Every soul" means "every soul", including those who sit in the seat of governing authority. Unjust or usurped powers and actions by these individuals have no authority and individuals who use their positions for that purpose are storing up wrath for themselves.
"Higher powers" are powers that are authoritative over "every soul" whether that particular soul sits in the seat of government or not. These powers are "of God" and are "ordained of God".
Men will be held accountable for their actions down to every idle word that they have spoken. Take heed.
I believe that the book of Romans was written by the apostle Paul, a roman citizen who was executed by Rome for being an outspoken Christian.
I believe that Romans 13 clearly explains what authority is just and right, and ordained of God for the security of our natural, unalienable rights. As Thomas Jefferson said, governments are instituted among men to secure these God-given rights.
I believe that Romans 13 primarily focuses on the requirement of all individuals, all souls, to subject themselves just and authoritative higher powers, ordained of God. That does not include tyrants in government who violate our natural, God-given rights. They will one day be held to account before a just and omnipotent God.
Hitler was not a tyrant. The jews who own you, may have taught you he was, but like most of their babble, it just isn't true.
Actually the "jews" don't own me and I reposted an article that the late Pastor Dixon had posted years ago. It doesn't mean that I agree 100% or even 50% of what he posted. And since we didn't live in Germany at the time of Hitler, we really don't know. I mean I did read his gun control act which is tyrannical.
Not actually. Of course that one is debatable since he was from the tribe of Judah, which was unfortunately translated into the word Jew. Not sure why, but the people today who typically claim to be jews are not of Judah, but rather from the Kazarian tribes of Russia. Revelation 3vs9 describes them.
It's called faith.